A thing I need to practice

[mizarchivist]

I am generally the ring leader on almost all things social at my house and have been sort of always. quiet_elegance  has a much different view of people and emphatically different comfort levels of interaction than I do. Once I figured this out, we were all much happier. He'll come out once in a while, but over all, he's disinclined to acquiesce (That means no). I may have said this before, but worth saying again: the Union means he's in contact with his own tribe. So, guess what! They're not people that I have a natural affinity towards- big surprise.

Last night he asked me to come out with him to spend time with his current BFF and his family at a Waltham tavern- I didn't expect it to be a long visit, but it was them having dinner and us having dessert (got there around 8- yeah, I ate hours earlier :). QE swears I did fine, but oh em gee did I feel like the fish out of water. Their 9 year old brought crayons thank god, so we goofed with those and we all had bits of conversation in a loud, dark room with televisions everywhere. Maybe I'll suggest we go to some place next. Some place without so many TVs - or any? That would be cool. And maybe bring some of my portable drawing stuff to further bond with the kid.

The thing I need to practice is figuring out how to start conversations in which the other person is encouraged to do most of the talking. That is a hell of a lot harder that it seems when one first tries.

Comments

[woodwardiocom.livejournal.com]

I hear asking them about their kids really works.

Yeahbut

[mizarchivist]

But the kid is sitting right there.... Which seems condescending. However, I agree. That's usually a safe go-to.

I'll get there. Hopefully I'll pick up more on their extra curriculars the more I see them and can ask how XYZ thing is without fishing so hard.

Re: Yeahbut

[catness.livejournal.com]

Where do you live?
How long have you lived there?
Do you like the neighborhood?
How are the schools? (Don't play any liberal cards here if not appropriate. :)
Any parks near you?
Vacation plans soon?

That should take care of an evening or two. ;)

Re: Yeahbut

[mizarchivist]

Good ones.
Fwiw, they have at least some streak of liberal because they're union, so *that* kind of liberalism is OK. Dealing with some family members and church people have given me practice on What Not To Talk About.

Re: Yeahbut

[catness.livejournal.com]

*giggles* This is the only place I've ever lived where unions are considered liberal. Hilarious!

Re: Yeahbut

[dbang.livejournal.com]

Through life with striker1957 I've learned a lot about the difference between "union politics" and the politics of union *members*. Union politics lean toward the liberal...strongly Democrat, anti-corporate, pro-labor, etc... (This is true locally and nationally.)

That does not mean that the members themselves tend to be liberal. That depends entirely on the union. SEIU? Liberal! Steelworkers? Not so much!

The union's job is to represent the labor-related concerns of its membership... and mostly stays far away from other political areas, religion, gay rights, you name it. (My good liberal boyfriend managed to get his very not liberal membership on board with health care for gay partners by framing it in terms of equal benefits for workers...a real trick!)

Re: Yeahbut

[mizarchivist]

That was brilliantly coherent, thanks D!- it sums up my observations of that slice of our culture very well.

[catness.livejournal.com]

Keep in mind that trying to control their environment may be a very YOU thing but may not be a very THEM thing. I share your distaste of loud places with TVs, but a lot of people really enjoy that atmosphere, or there wouldn't be so many of them. It's okay to suggest alternatives, but be aware that it might not be successful or welcome.

It's funny... many of us geeky grown-ups have tailored our adult world to include only those of our kind, or set up our social lives such that the people Not Like Us are rarely encountered, creating little need to navigate the painful awkwardness of our respective youths. It's a lot more comfortable for us, and I suspect most humans do this kind of sorting. I'm not sure there's anything inherently wrong about it, to be honest, as long as it doesn't push into xenophobia and -isms. However, one of the big changes between us as adults vs. still being kids, is sometimes we have to recognize that compromises need to happen, and that the compromises are often ours to make.

This might be one of those times. ;)

[mizarchivist]

I'm definitely interested in pushing my comfort levels for QE's sake. These are his peeps and I want to be able to be unselfconscious when we're on his territory. The path he's taking means I'll certainly be attending more stuff over the next few years- at least I feel I ought to.

Maybe with it still being nice out we can at least go to a place that has a patio out back so the noise dissipates. They seem pretty happy go lucky, so I bet QE can help me come up w/ a place that will be more middle of the road.

Seems like you did OK

[drwex]

I agree - while the weather is good a patio-equipped place is usually a win.

In addition to the listed stuff, asking about food and drink is usually safe. Travel is another win - you can mention the trips you and q_e have taken and ask if they've been anyplace interesting.

[minkrose]

This was pointed out to me recently (I think muffyjo, or something she linked to?) that Americans tend to ask "what do you do" professionally, whereas Europeans ask "what do you do" with your free time?
I'm trying to ask the latter question more often. For example, Andy's job... not so interesting. Andy's swordfighting stuff... totally awesome.

The main thing I've had to work on to get people to talk is to really listen, which I am not always good at. It depends on the person, but mostly it involves really letting go of things I want to tell people. And I love telling stories, so this is hard.

[mizarchivist]

In this case, I know what he does: union carpenter, so I could ask how his job site is going if I wanted. (DUH- why didn't I think of that last night?!) and I believe she's a teacher. My one attempt to ask about her work was to ask when they had to start gearing up for school. Ah well. It's a start.
However, I agree: asking about stuff NOT regarding work is a thing I'm trying to do more.
I also talk a lot as a rule, but in this case rather not interested in getting to into me. I have a lot of stuff I don't want to get into with these nice folk.

[dbang.livejournal.com]

" the Union means he's in contact with his own tribe. So, guess what! They're not people that I have a natural affinity towards- big surprise. "

God, I hear you!

My man's a union man...I mean, seriously a union man...he's been employed by, for or with unions for 35 years. Mostly "building trades" unions.

So, yeah, nice phrasing. "people I don't have a natural affinity towards". It's been interesting.

I've had little chance to socialize with his people even though we've been together for 7 years, and I think part of the reason (though he will deny vehemently) is that I am not Of His People and would definitely be fish out of water. On one hand, I'm frustrated at being held at arm's length from that part of his life (which is really 98.3% of his life). On the other hand I know I'd feel super uncomfortable.

So, er, no point here but to say, oh yeah...

[ETA: too bad our men aren't in the same union or we could try and overlap events. But the Carpenters and the Painters are general at odds with one another...not a friendly relationship.]

[mizarchivist]

Oh it's true. Painters and carpenters, not the best buds evar. Although IF they happen to attend the same gathering (and it may happen at least once, maybe twice a year), making a point to introduce them and see how it goes is not a bad idea. QE is extremely keen on agitating, organizing, and teaching- and inevitably Taking Over The World, I think. He's more inclined to bridge-build with other non carpenter union folk, methinks.

But I get that about the isolation. He wants to protect his home life- and me- from the harshness that can be part of his work life. But given his aspirations, getting in the practice of being an agreeable union wife for functions makes sense. And even aside from all that: my life partner has a thing he's really committed to. I want to be able to experience him in his own environment.

[dbang.livejournal.com]

"I want to be able to experience him in his own environment."

Yes, this, exactly.

Flip side, though..."union wife?" Ug. *twitch twitch* It's definitely a *thing*. I don't know if its universal to male-dominated unions, or specific to building trades or what, but "the wives" are treated as an entity unto themselves with their own special role that I really and truly don't grok.

One thing that amuses the heck out of me about Striker is the way he switches contexts. His job requires that the rub elbows with politicians at high and low levels...and other union "activists"...and the regular rank and file. Even, on occasion, "management". For each he has a different persona, complete with a different accent (straight up radio-announcer with high level pols, Southie with the rank and file), different body language, etc. He doesn't even know he's doing it.

When he's with me, he's more like with the pols. Is that because it's his natural state? (he has a white bread middle class background, much like me) Or because it is what *I* am most comfortable with.

[mizarchivist]

Striker and QE almost certainly should meet on purpose.

Yeah-- I debated on using that term, union wife-
It is so much guy-land. And hawkhandsaw. :)

[dbang.livejournal.com]

Oh btw, what i meant by overlapping events wasn't MINE AND YOURS, but union events. if we were both carpenters' wives, I could come be your wingman at the inevitable rubber chicken dinners and so forth.

At OUR events, we are sure to cross paths, and Striker is definitely a bridge builder sort. In general, while there is some union-level animosity, there isn't *personal* animosity. Striker would feel more in common with QE, just on account of him being in a building trades union, than with almost anyone else is OUR crowd.

[mizarchivist]

Striker would feel more in common with QE, just on account of him being in a building trades union, than with almost anyone else is OUR crowd.

Word, sister.

[hawkhandsaw.livejournal.com]

Real brief, 'cause I'm at the hall and trying to finish up so I can go get the bebe.

If it's who I think it might be, ask him about Las Vegas. Asking him about any training he's done lately is an option no matter who it was.

Topics for her - ask about her kid as a baby. It's something you may be interested in right now and it gives her a chance to tell interesting anecdotes and let's her talk. The daughter may find this interestiong too.

union wife - twitch, twitch; but I think Wris thinks of this too... but then again, Wris is rather antisocial except for smaller groups of select people.

I'll think on this and see if I can come up with more suggestions for later, but I do love the idea of outdoor dining.

[mizarchivist]

Oh good point- I'll totally ask R. about Vegas. Also, I didn't expect it to be an extended visit, which means longer to muddle through.

[asciikitty.livejournal.com]

And, y'know, R and I connected a lot over the things that I do well that are things that work - now, he was visiting me at my work, but he enjoyed discussing... my particular mechanical hobby thing.

Also, um. R likes to talk, so just point him in a direction and he goes.

[aint-it-hard.livejournal.com]

/The thing I need to practice is figuring out how to start conversations in which the other person is encouraged to do most of the talking. That is a hell of a lot harder that it seems when one first tries./

Let me know how to do this. Still working on the whole concept...

[mizarchivist]

I'm hoping from the pointers given here I can deal with this specific bit of awkward. I just have to channel Mom, right?

[aint-it-hard.livejournal.com]

Exactly. She never had the problem. Just pick up on the Urban side and you'll be all set...